Enough! Already! (... and mythic diversions)

[tcpip]

The Israeli invasion of Gaza continues, with the number of civilian deaths rising dramatically. Claims that Israel has been using cluster bombs and white phosphorus. Two UN schools are bombed killing forty, just after UN ambulances were hit killing paramedics. The definition of a 'terrorist' and a 'valid target'seems to get a bit rubbery according to the IDF. In contrast, Australian Jews denounce the invasion. A former Israeli soldier, and now Oxford professor, has come to some hard conclusions as a result of the invasion. Avaaz (a remarkably effective group) has a cease-fire petition, which I urge all to sign and pass on. Also, go vote for Prof. Juan Cole's 'blog Informed Comment as Best Middle East or Africa 'Blog.

I sometimes find myself drawn into this discussion and over the years have found myself increasingly in support of the "one (democratic, secular) state solution". The partition of Palestine was perhaps the worst early decision made by the United Nations and was not supported by any neighbouring state or by the former colonial power. Under such circumstances it is hardly surprising that there have been seemingly endless violence and wars as a consequence. Resolving the issue would involve ending the pseudo-soveriegnity (as Hannah Arendt put it) of a Jewish state in favour of a Jewish homeland in Palestine. Apart from applying laws equally over what it is currently Israel and the occupied territories, it would involvd ending existing discriminatory institutions and laws (e.g., Knesset Election Law, the control of the Israel Land Administration by the Jewish National Fund, the Law of Return, Nationality Law etc) would have to be abolished in favour of secular alternatives. Of course, having such considered opinions does attract detractors; dear readers, I present you my own troll from Tel Aviv.

Have engaged in a few mythic diversions of late. Last Sunday's RuneQuest Prax game included defeating the witch-queen of disease and visiting a moment of the non-sequential reality that is the Godtime. darknova666's character jumped between misfortune and elation on several occassions in the scenario. On a further Gloranthan theme I've introduced The Crimson Bat in my HeroQuest pbem. Have also extracted and modified the review of Pathfinder from the latest issue of RPG Review (issue #3 already has three articles, awesome!) to submit to RPG.net. On an oddly related topic, on Sunday week I'm presenting on "A Unitarian-Univeralist View of the Economic Crisis" - how's that related? Afterwards we're playing Credo: The Game of Duelling Dogmas, which is attracting some interest from members of the congregation.

Comments

[silverblue.livejournal.com]

I almost wish the discussions I have been happening included trollishness like that. I am getting frustrated with the recurrent argument: Hamas are killing Palestinians because they are hiding in refugee camps. They know they will be shelled, so they are killing Palestinians (the arguments are oddly phrased, as though they think Hamas are some group from out of country rather than, say, Palestinians).

The logic appears to be something along the lines of: If a man who belongs to a terrorist group takes shelter in a hospital, we must shell the hospital. It is his fault the wounded die, but the risk of leaving him alive to kill people is worth killing people!

I am also upset that I constantly have to preface discussions with: 'I don't believe Israelis should be being hurt and killed' as if the very fact that I can well comprehend why racial rages and general unfairness and poverty boils into rage implies I think it's just dandy folk are hurling home made rockets at the other side. No, seriously, I do not want Israelis of any sort, soldier or not, to be killed and maimed, but good God if someone said 'we'll permit you to survive in abject free poverty while your oppressors are privileged in jobs, security, and resources until you are forced to relinquish freedom for basic quality of life' than an armed resistance would seem terribly bloody logical to me. Not nice, not good, almost definitely murderous, but very, very logical.

[silverblue.livejournal.com]

Apologies, I'm quite frustrated, as you can tell! Oddly enough, it keeps bringing me back to watching a couple of lesbian ladies abuse a friend of mine for being bisexual after commenting on homophobia...no threats of 'colluding with the straights'. Just her sexuality enough was objectionable. Things that make you get a tic in one corner of your eye...

[tcpip.livejournal.com]

the arguments are oddly phrased, as though they think Hamas are some group from out of country rather than, say, Palestinians

Yes, that has struck me as well. There is also a tendency to equate all Hamas supporters with terrorism. I am no fan of Hamas' doctrines by any stretch of the imagination but people voted for them for a variety of often quite legitimate reasons (including their successful social welfare programs, because they were not corrupt like many Fatah representatives, because they could pull more extreme groups like Islamic Jihad into line etc)

.. the very fact that I can well comprehend why racial rages and general unfairness and poverty boils into rage implies I think it's just dandy folk are hurling home made rockets at the other side.

Right on. Understanding the situation and the results does not mean morally condoning suicide bombings or the launching of unguided home-made missiles at random targets.

I wonder what such people who don't get this would be like if they had been born and bred in the prison camp that is Gaza. I wonder how many of them would have turned out exactly as like the people they condemn?

[rialian.livejournal.com]

===Agreed, and it is rather frustrating that part of the reason no one calls Israel on this is due to the Holocaust. It is an incredible dishonoring of the dead to have their deaths shielding these sorts of EVIL actions.

===Powering/shielding hate with the blood of the innocent dead is deeply offensive (and yes, I do consider the invasion of Iraq to be the same sort of thing....)

[rialian.livejournal.com]

===I do often wonder when that "line" will be crossed, when Israel actually does get seriously punished for it's behavior. The "We are only defending ourselves" is getting REALLY thin and threadbare.

[tcpip.livejournal.com]

Well in a legal sense, Israel is not a member of the International Criminal Court or even the International Convention on the Suppression and Punishment of the Crime of Apartheid (which is extraordinary), so any legal punishment will have to come from Israeli citizens themselves (which, thank goodness, there are many brave individuals who are prepared to fight their own government in its own courts).

In a military sense, the current government is playing a very, very dangerous game. This action has caused a great deal of anger in the neighbouring Arab states. It is quite plausible that it could lead to a larger zone of conflict which Israel would find very difficult to win. The northern border is, of course, very jittery at the moment, but militarily a more frightening prospect would be an intervention by Egypt; fortunately for Israel, the Egyptian leadership is pretty pathetic.

The "We are only defending ourselves" is getting REALLY thin and threadbare.

Even to the extent that Israel is protecting itself, it hasn't been particularly convincing that this is the right strategy. Heck, you just don't shell a school full of kids because there might be a couple of militia hiding in there. You don't launch a massive invasion threatening the lives of more than a million civilians because there's a handful of casulties from Qassam rockets.

An armed force of UN peacekeepers (unlike the unarmed UN observers in southern Lebanon) on both sides of the borders of Gaza and the West Bank would be one solution, for example.

[greylock.livejournal.com]

While I was on holiday I got multiple, daily, e-mails from The Israel Project, which I believe claims to be non-partisan.

Knowing what I know about the last two weeks, and reading just the subjects it was kinda interesting.
I got an invite to a presser with Israeli Army spokesperson Mark Redjhev (Goebbels would be proud of his spin, so I'm sad I can't spell his name). A pity I missed it, but I imagine it would have been controlled.

[tcpip.livejournal.com]

I don't know.. The site and slogans of The Israel Project looks pretty partisan to me.

[n2kaja.livejournal.com]

Signed and voted. I love reading when you are passionate about the world!

[n2kaja.livejournal.com]

do you have a facebook by any chance.
if so would love you to add me
Kaja Malouf

[tcpip.livejournal.com]

Done. There was only only Kaja Malouf, so that was a bit easier :)

[angel80.livejournal.com]

"claims that Israel has been using cluster bombs"

Could they be anything else? What else could they be?

[tcpip.livejournal.com]

I have read it argued that they are smoke bombs used to cover troop movements.

Personally, I don't know.

[janewilliams20.livejournal.com]

(Nothing to say on the Israel issue that hasn't been said, so sighing and moving on)

The Crimson Bat, at Iceland? Interesting... but unless you're running in a very divergent Glorantha, Broyan knows it can be beaten, because he's done it before. 1619, start of the siege of Whitewall.

[tcpip.livejournal.com]

Excellent! Thanks for the heads-up on that one, I'll add it to the plot.

(Currently the PCs want to run and hide and have the Bat feast on the Lunars.. Which isn't a bad strategy, I must admit)

[darknova666.livejournal.com]

israelis wud never go for the one state as arabs wud outnumber jews and breed faster and the jews wud end up as a minority - similar to south africa.

i only see it being sorted out as seperate states walled off but with routes to the other states if blocked off.

cant see it happening for a whie tho.

i doubt the current offensive will ducceeed except to help the current rulers in the coming elections.

[tcpip.livejournal.com]

Among conservative Israelites this is referred to as the Arab "demographic bomb" (sneaky Arabs, they've always got bombs). Whether or not they go for a one state solution now, they still face the problem that Arabs will become more populous than Jews in the longer term within the current borders of Israel.

For conservative Isralis, the only way it can remain a demographically Jewish state in the long run would require massively importing Jews from around the world and expelling Israeli Arabs at the same time - and thus giving up any pretense to be even vaguely democratic in the process.

Either that or they give up being a "Jewish" state, and instead extend their already somewhat democratic and somewhat secular institutions to include all inhabitants within the levant.

[ninboydean.livejournal.com]

It is frustrating to live in the U.S. and see all the liberal trash about how "they're animals" etc.. I've been watching the conflict intently, and even still I am equally irritated by the disgusting, racist attitude prevalent here.

Of course, I am deeply concerned by the present drama. A few good notes:

Ramattan News is a Pal - based independent news source with very good coverage of the war.

Donating to Christian Aid's Middle East Appeal Fund or signing letters can directly help Gazans.

Out of all the people I see blog about these issues, you are one of the most consistent, level-headed and humanist. Keep up the good work!

[tcpip.livejournal.com]

Thank you for the kind comments (such remarks make me realise I'm not just howling at the moon in despair) and for the links.

The assignment of an entire population as subhuman, due to the actions of some, makes atrocities committed against said population acceptable to some.

One can reach new levels of moral disengagement where, by extension, children are considered to be morally responsible as well. Such was Justin Raimondo's excellent article on the mid-east and invasion of Iraq.

http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig5/raimondo1.html

[anivair.livejournal.com]

I've been thinking about this conflict lately and the more I read the more I cannot support israel. I don't know if I like thinking that, as much of my family are American Jews and they support Israel without a thought, but what they're doing is just wrong and the only reason this war is still going on is because we're paying for it.

I think that the democratic secular nation is the only solution that might work, because then both groups will have access to jerusalem. Honestly, whichever side loses that place is going to believe they lost and that'll be the end of it. unless you can clone the city, there will be no peace with a 2 state solution, sadly.

[tcpip.livejournal.com]

There is a very real sense that American Jews are absolutely critical in resolving the problem of the Levant. As long as they give unquestioning support to Israel, conflict in inevitable.

As you correctly say, Jerusalem is a linchpin. The Palestinians will never be happy with any state created for them that does not include at least East Jerusalem as a capital. It is as important to them as it is to Jews and Christians.

Dammit, I want to build the third temple there. And make it a Unitarian-Universalist temple. For theocrats, that would be the apocalypse!

[zenicurean.livejournal.com]

I don't think a single secular state is within the realm of possibility; it would seem to me that the Jewish state is a fait accompli. But what interests me is this -- what are the long-term military and political goals of Hamas? The interests of peace may require for them to reverse their... strict... position on Israel and Judaism, and to do so before Israel reciprocates the gesture and acknowledges them. If they cannot do that when necessary, or if they choose not to do that if necessary, then they will have failed to stop Israeli advance much more thoroughly than they can imagine.

It is to some extent irrelevant to Israel and the US whether Palestinians vote Hamas for the soup kitchens, the schools and for the charity work -- the collective multi-million dollar zakat, as it were, of the organisation -- or for its militant stance. It is only relevant to Israel and the US that Fatah is losing the gravity of power.

Indeed, that is the most significant tactical blunder of recent times, and I am inclined to think it is one of Fatah. I suppose I should include Marwan Barghouti's al-Mustaqbal under this umbrella. Once Fatah and Mr Barghouti had collectively lost the popular vote, they had little choice but to take part in that incharitable Palestinian parlour game, Toss The Other Side's Politicans Off A Rooftop, which Fatah played for many rounds with Hamas for no long-term gain whatsoever.

[madali.livejournal.com]

Hamas accepted and observed a six-month cease-fire. This means that they have were looking beyond their slogans.

Realistically, if the west cared, they'd know that resistance group that were standing by certain ideals since their conceptions from 1980s, couldn't just abandon them all the instant they get elected into office, even if they wanted to. It would be a huge blow to their group structure.

The group could have slowly weaned itself off from their slogans if they gained some grounds in terms of improving the lives of the Palestanian people and their independence.

[madali.livejournal.com]

Reading many pro-israeli comments online is frustrating, because they think the alternative to killing more than 700 people in 10 days is doing nothing.

They act like Israel has two options only. Kill 700 people or not act, as if many other paths are not possible.

It is disgusting to watch this unfold and have reasonable people not be disgusted by this. There is NO excuse for the extremity of this attack considering how WEAK and NON-THREATENING Hamas is. A group that has been only able to kill a dozen people with their rockets in EIGHT years is not that scary. A group that has not even been able to kill HALF A DOZEN SOLDIERS in these crisis is not that threatening.

It is appalling and the sons and daughters of the people who support Israel will grow up in 40 years and wonder why their parents turned a blind eye. Like every generation that follows, looks back in history with disgust, and does the exact same thing in the present

[tcpip.livejournal.com]

They act like Israel has two options only. Kill 700 people or not act, as if many other paths are not possible.

Indeed; and even when several alternatives are offered they are dutifully ignored.

It is almost as if those, far from the conflict, actually want to see the killings on the wide-screen monitors.

Bread and circuses.

[laura-seabrook.livejournal.com]

I long ago, after reading the history of the area, gave up even attempting to justify or even condone any actions by the Israeli government. It seems obvious that, like deliberately detaining everyone who arrives in Australia as a boat person, "deliberately" killing civilians is meant to be a "deterrent".

A pox on both their houses.

[zey.livejournal.com]

Me, I think there's only one realistic solution to the Israel/Palestine issue: have Europe, Australasia and the Americas offer sole citizenship on condition that the holder-to-be was a citizen of Israel or the Palestine Territories on Jan 1 2009. Allow all the people who just want to live their lives in peace to get out of there and leave the region to the religious nutters to kill each other over -- alone, without any innocents present to be hit by either side.

What horrifies me about the current conflict is all the innocents being killed. Subhuman religious loonies: they can kill each other as much as they like. In fact, dare I say, the more the merrier.

[zenicurean.livejournal.com]

The European Union has Muslims aplenty, and I dare say we are in the main richer for it. But we are unlikely to be as enlightened as to allow substantially more to come in from Palestine, in large part because they would likely not be particularly wealthy Muslims, and in some part because some of us seem to believe they'd be heading directly and intently towards the Gates of Vienna, as it were. And they would not come, at any rate.

As for the Israeli, there's an anecdote I saw Amos Oz once telling about his childhood that may shed some light into the problem. His parents had been Europeans, of the wealthy, cosmopolitan, polyglot Ashkenazi type not uncommon in the East before the war, and to the end of their days they could not come to entirely accept Jerusalem. They listened to Mozart, they read Schiller, that sort of thing. Jerusalem was drab, it was not civilisation they could feel was their own. They taught Mr Oz many languages, but they avoided the so-called great European ones they themselves knew so well and used so fluently. This was not because they had become nationalists, but because they had not become so. They dreaded that Mr Oz would discover Europe, and fall in love with Europe, and go to Europe, and that Europe would do its thing and kill him.

[taavi.livejournal.com]

Does RPG review 3 have a theme?

I know very little about the israel/palestine conflict. It does strike me that Israel is, to some extent, being suckered. Hamas' rocket firing (which, it is reasonable to believe, they would know would provoke a military response - it's hard to see what else it achieves) seems designed to provoke Israel into overreacting, killing (ad- or inad-vertently) Gazan civilians, which gives Hamas a fresh crop of matyrs and alienated recruits. Provoking a disproprotionate response from "the authorities" is a classic insurrectionist tactic.

The implication is that Hamas have decided that being a civil government is just too hard (understandable under the blockade conditions they face) and have decided to revert to being a pure guerilla/terrorist militia again, since if you want to supply good governance then provoking attacks on your citizens/subjects isn't very helpful.

[tcpip.livejournal.com]

Does RPG review 3 have a theme?

Not a strong one at this point. There's a bit of a concentration towards Dennis Sustare and Greg Costiyan's contributions to gaming; from Bunnies & Burrows to Paranoia :)

According to the Hamas pov, Israel broke the ceasefire after it killed six Hamas militants in a raid inside the Gaza strip on November 4.. which lead to rocket attacks, which lead to approval being given to Operation Cast Lead ... and all that followed.

[darknova666.livejournal.com]

i think u need to setup that politics site u have been talking about!

[tcpip.livejournal.com]

I think you're right. I'll make a start this weekend.