Censorship, Stalinism and Emo Kids.

[tcpip]

The political left infuriates me at times. Actually, it often infuriates me. But maybe that's because I'm much more of an anarchist than a Stalinist.

Yesterday, the chief executive of the Human Rights and Equal Opportunity Commission spoke at the Melbourne Unitarian Church on defending the state governments poorly-considered Racial and Religious Tolerance Act. The main problem with the act is that is outlaws certain (ridicule, contemptuous) speech not on the basis of truth (e.g., defamation law or vilification law), but on offensiveness. In other words, offensive truths are outlawed.

I pointed this out during the service (apparently making the CEO quite uncomfortable, thank goodness) and afterwards found myself in a debate over what constitutes "truth" (external correspondence, I suggested pragmatically) to whit one member of the congregation suggested that there have been numerous claims that Stalin killed millions but these have never been proven true. It's like they've never heard of Robert Conquest whose words ring resoundingly: "Not even high intelligence and a sensitive spirit are of any help once the facts of a situation are deduced from a political theory, rather than vice versa."

To add to further infuriation, there is the total stupidity of a psychologist who claims Emo causes death (via missmalice. I have written a harsh letter to said psychologist. One automatically recalls the term "moral panic", as described by Stanley Cohen in 1972 to describe the reaction to Mods and Rockers in the United Kingdom. Sort of on-topic (noone else on my flist has mentioned this); Boris Pickett ("Monster Mash") has died.

Link of the week to scarletazalea: Morning shower and coffee at the same time: Caffiene soap! (it's absorbed through the skin).

Comments

[mr-e-cat.livejournal.com]

have you heard of the recent legislation to outlaw voting for those currently serving a prison sentence of 4 years or more?

[tcpip.livejournal.com]

I actually thought that was already in place; I remember the proposal of giving serious prisoners the right to vote in the early 1990s through the Herald-Sun's banner "Votes for Rapists and Murderers".

Ah, such a short series of steps to a Florida level of disenfranchisment.

[mrteufel.livejournal.com]

Hmm. Can't read your letter, it appears the site hosting it is down.

mirror

[imajica-lj.livejournal.com]

http://theavatarscave.net/emo.txt

[tcpip.livejournal.com]

Give it another whirl; all good now..

[cheshire-bitten.livejournal.com]

There was a study I found a while ago which suggested that goth culture might be protective against suicide because of the support for mental illness which existed in the community, I suspect you could find the same in the emo community.

[tcpip.livejournal.com]

That's a very interesting point. I suspect some of those with a mental illness of some sort find the social isolation and prejudice a contributing factor towards suicidal tendancies. Having a network of friends who attempt to be understanding would certainly be helpful.

I would be interested in some hefty empirical studies on the matter as well. I remember Mike Stackpole's (et al) reseach into suicide among the "roleplaying scare" of the 1980s. His results was quite interesting.

http://www.religioustolerance.org/d_a_d3.htm

[forwrathandruin.livejournal.com]

So it's now illegal in Australia to say offensive things, even if they're true, about religion and race?

[tcpip.livejournal.com]

In Victoria, yes. Or more specifically comments which cause contempt or serious ridicule.

[lederhosen.livejournal.com]

Emo causes death

Rather than, say, chronic bullying of kids going through one of the more stressful stages of life. Gah.

[tcpip.livejournal.com]

Ironically the psych that made these comments is supposedly an expert in bullying at schools. You'd think she'd know better.

[zenicurean.livejournal.com]

"Not even high intelligence and a sensitive spirit are of any help once the facts of a situation are deduced from a political theory, rather than vice versa."

I think this hits the nail in the head in more ways than one. Gods know I'm often enough frustrated with a lot of people on my own side of the political fence(s). There are all sorts of true believers around my crew whose commitment to arbitrary ethical principles xyz often crosses the line and becomes a kind of a faith in the existence of all-curing miracle ideologies. It's bad for compromise and dialogue, but more importantly it tends to be bad for critical thinking. And it's bad for the whole process of politics, because it tends to erode one's confidence in the essentially good and reasonable intentions of the other side, whoever they are.

But I find myself sometimes working with political "crusaders" nonetheless, and that is sad... if for no other reason, then at the very least because what these people say and do will tend to reflect on people's expectations of what I want to say and do. Everyone in something like politics knows how frustrating it is when one's suddenly expected to defend that elusive opinionist, Dr Straw-Man.

Also, I'd be interested to know what this assembly of worthies thinks of the Russo-Finnish War of 1939.

[tcpip.livejournal.com]

Also, I'd be interested to know what this assembly of worthies thinks of the Russo-Finnish War of 1939.

I'll have to ask the respective person(s). I suspect they'll be too embarressed by the results to give a straight answer.

Incentives

[erudito.livejournal.com]

If the limits of free expression are determined by how offended people are, the defining of freedom is surrendered to the most offended.

This is, apart from all its other problems, a very bad incentive structure.

You know that, I know that, but amazing numbers of apparently very clever people either don't get it or don't care.

Re: Incentives

[tcpip.livejournal.com]

They assume there's an innate goodness in the usual victims which would mean that wouldn't possibly exploit a situation to their own advantage.

Cui Bono?

[zenicurean.livejournal.com]

Maybe it is because they are often spectacularly offended.

Re: Incentives

[celsa.livejournal.com]

Ooh! Ooh! I'm the most offended!

Do I get to make the rules now? :-D

Emo story

[celsa.livejournal.com]

I couldn't see the story on the site (might be my 'puter) I found the story on YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OUGYe3Ly0jE&mode=related&search=

I have two Emo nieces who I get along really, really well with. I am intensely glad that they have a subculture to reside in. (It makes gift-buying so easy - anything black, anything dead, anything sad...) They derive joy from their chosen mind-set, and they are better equipped to cope with life than my raised-to-be-Stepford-Wives siblings.

The TT story was classic hysteria-hashing and the shrink deserved the lambasting you gave her. I hope she recovers from her delusions of adequacy soon, and stops telling kids that it's unhealthy and wrong to reveal their negative emotions. Life is not a toothpaste commercial, after all.

Re: Emo story

[tcpip.livejournal.com]

It would seem that they've pulled the transcript. How honourable and honest of Channel 7.

The happy delusion knows no bounds. They would smilingly lead us through the gates of Auschwitz telling us to "stop being so negative".

[angel80.livejournal.com]

You know, I am so offended by religion of all kinds, possibly I could go to court in Victoria and get a decision outlawing the expression of all religious views! I think not.

[tcpip.livejournal.com]

That was precisely what I said.

[evil-genius.livejournal.com]

http://community.livejournal.com/libertarianism/2018742.html?thread=60262326#t60262326

[tcpip.livejournal.com]

ping!

[jahbulon.livejournal.com]

How do you think this law will affect satire?

[tcpip.livejournal.com]

Technically excluded from section 11 as long as it done "in good faith".

Not that the public exclusions helped the "Catch the Fire" Ministries. The judge simply said they weren't acting "in good faith".

[amazinggoatgirl.livejournal.com]

I wonder when it will be illegal to talk. Then at least no one can say they're offended.
...
Why didn't your "harsh" letter say that even if there was evidence for increased suicide and depression rates among emos, it's surely correlational and caused by something else entirely? (Probably a feeling of alienation from one's peers and authority figures + strong emotions, IMO)

[tcpip.livejournal.com]

... it's surely correlational and caused by something else entirely?

Because in psychology - like in medicine -, all correlations are considered significant (something I agree with, actually).

Robert Conquest

[(Anonymous)]

Actually, in response to your comment, "It's like they've never heard of Robert Conquest," I might suggest that you may want to reconsider old orthodoxies. One might reply that "it's like Lev Lafayette has never heard of Robert Service, and still hews to the horribly inflated claims of suspect right-wing Cold Warrior poets-cum-historians."

Robert Conquest is indeed a very suspect source, and much of his work has been shown to be highly creative in a rather unflattering sense.

It's presumptious to assume your opponents are working off of deduction from political theory, while claiming your adherence to orthodox sources as, effectively, just commonsense.

Facts, facts, facts are the issue. Things are not so simple as the old established Cold War orthodoxies would have us believe.

Gluby

Re: Robert Conquest

[tcpip.livejournal.com]

All the debates are available

http://sovietinfo.tripod.com/