Censorship, Stalinism and Emo Kids.

[tcpip]

The political left infuriates me at times. Actually, it often infuriates me. But maybe that's because I'm much more of an anarchist than a Stalinist.

Yesterday, the chief executive of the Human Rights and Equal Opportunity Commission spoke at the Melbourne Unitarian Church on defending the state governments poorly-considered Racial and Religious Tolerance Act. The main problem with the act is that is outlaws certain (ridicule, contemptuous) speech not on the basis of truth (e.g., defamation law or vilification law), but on offensiveness. In other words, offensive truths are outlawed.

I pointed this out during the service (apparently making the CEO quite uncomfortable, thank goodness) and afterwards found myself in a debate over what constitutes "truth" (external correspondence, I suggested pragmatically) to whit one member of the congregation suggested that there have been numerous claims that Stalin killed millions but these have never been proven true. It's like they've never heard of Robert Conquest whose words ring resoundingly: "Not even high intelligence and a sensitive spirit are of any help once the facts of a situation are deduced from a political theory, rather than vice versa."

To add to further infuriation, there is the total stupidity of a psychologist who claims Emo causes death (via missmalice. I have written a harsh letter to said psychologist. One automatically recalls the term "moral panic", as described by Stanley Cohen in 1972 to describe the reaction to Mods and Rockers in the United Kingdom. Sort of on-topic (noone else on my flist has mentioned this); Boris Pickett ("Monster Mash") has died.

Link of the week to scarletazalea: Morning shower and coffee at the same time: Caffiene soap! (it's absorbed through the skin).

Comments

[mr-e-cat.livejournal.com]

have you heard of the recent legislation to outlaw voting for those currently serving a prison sentence of 4 years or more?

[tcpip.livejournal.com]

I actually thought that was already in place; I remember the proposal of giving serious prisoners the right to vote in the early 1990s through the Herald-Sun's banner "Votes for Rapists and Murderers".

Ah, such a short series of steps to a Florida level of disenfranchisment.

[mrteufel.livejournal.com]

Hmm. Can't read your letter, it appears the site hosting it is down.

[cheshire-bitten.livejournal.com]

There was a study I found a while ago which suggested that goth culture might be protective against suicide because of the support for mental illness which existed in the community, I suspect you could find the same in the emo community.

mirror

[imajica-lj.livejournal.com]

http://theavatarscave.net/emo.txt

[forwrathandruin.livejournal.com]

So it's now illegal in Australia to say offensive things, even if they're true, about religion and race?

[tcpip.livejournal.com]

That's a very interesting point. I suspect some of those with a mental illness of some sort find the social isolation and prejudice a contributing factor towards suicidal tendancies. Having a network of friends who attempt to be understanding would certainly be helpful.

I would be interested in some hefty empirical studies on the matter as well. I remember Mike Stackpole's (et al) reseach into suicide among the "roleplaying scare" of the 1980s. His results was quite interesting.

http://www.religioustolerance.org/d_a_d3.htm

[tcpip.livejournal.com]

In Victoria, yes. Or more specifically comments which cause contempt or serious ridicule.

[tcpip.livejournal.com]

Give it another whirl; all good now..

[lederhosen.livejournal.com]

Emo causes death

Rather than, say, chronic bullying of kids going through one of the more stressful stages of life. Gah.

[tcpip.livejournal.com]

Ironically the psych that made these comments is supposedly an expert in bullying at schools. You'd think she'd know better.

[forwrathandruin.livejournal.com]

In what specific way are such comments delineated? Is there a specific code by which one can tell that one's speech is against the law?

...the very fact that we're discussing this in practice rather than in shuddersome theory is unfathomable to me, by the way.

[tcpip.livejournal.com]

Follow the link; it contains the law in full.

The law, btw, contains no civil or criminal penalties.

I give a due mocking at every opportunity.

[forwrathandruin.livejournal.com]

So... what happens if you break it? I mean, obviously 'nothing' in the technical sense. But what kind of law doesn't have any penalties?

[cheshire-bitten.livejournal.com]

http://cheshire-bitten.livejournal.com/37355.html

[cheshire-bitten.livejournal.com]

Not a great study but there you go.

[tcpip.livejournal.com]

To my understanding it can go to the same process as the tribunal of the Equal Opportunity Act.

[tcpip.livejournal.com]

That's an interesting pitch; but the authors are right - 25 is far too small a number to take into any sense of conclusion.

[zenicurean.livejournal.com]

"Not even high intelligence and a sensitive spirit are of any help once the facts of a situation are deduced from a political theory, rather than vice versa."

I think this hits the nail in the head in more ways than one. Gods know I'm often enough frustrated with a lot of people on my own side of the political fence(s). There are all sorts of true believers around my crew whose commitment to arbitrary ethical principles xyz often crosses the line and becomes a kind of a faith in the existence of all-curing miracle ideologies. It's bad for compromise and dialogue, but more importantly it tends to be bad for critical thinking. And it's bad for the whole process of politics, because it tends to erode one's confidence in the essentially good and reasonable intentions of the other side, whoever they are.

But I find myself sometimes working with political "crusaders" nonetheless, and that is sad... if for no other reason, then at the very least because what these people say and do will tend to reflect on people's expectations of what I want to say and do. Everyone in something like politics knows how frustrating it is when one's suddenly expected to defend that elusive opinionist, Dr Straw-Man.

Also, I'd be interested to know what this assembly of worthies thinks of the Russo-Finnish War of 1939.

Incentives

[erudito.livejournal.com]

If the limits of free expression are determined by how offended people are, the defining of freedom is surrendered to the most offended.

This is, apart from all its other problems, a very bad incentive structure.

You know that, I know that, but amazing numbers of apparently very clever people either don't get it or don't care.

[zenicurean.livejournal.com]

Back where I'm in, one may be convicted of hate speech for saying sufficiently negative things about anything qualified by the state registry as a real religion. The laws are invoked next to never, but when they are, they are invoked for the silliest of reasons.

Re: Incentives

[tcpip.livejournal.com]

They assume there's an innate goodness in the usual victims which would mean that wouldn't possibly exploit a situation to their own advantage.

Cui Bono?

[zenicurean.livejournal.com]

Maybe it is because they are often spectacularly offended.

[tcpip.livejournal.com]

Also, I'd be interested to know what this assembly of worthies thinks of the Russo-Finnish War of 1939.

I'll have to ask the respective person(s). I suspect they'll be too embarressed by the results to give a straight answer.

[zenicurean.livejournal.com]

And of course, we wouldn't want to forget Poland.