Lev Lafayette&#39;s journal

"Monsters 1: Lordi wins Eurovision. Surprised to see many people on my flist making a big deal of this. Let's face it, their lyrics suck and musically they're as competent as KISS or Twisted Sister (i.e., not at all). Basically, they're a crap band in glam monster outfits."

Normally I am beyond impressed with the content of your posts on live journal. Both here in your private journal and elsewhere. But I'm going to have to call you on this one. As you seen to have your head wedged firmly up your ass.

You have made the mistake of assuming that since this band isn't for you, it must not be for anyone. It looks like you made the same mistake regarding Kiss and Twisted Sister aswell. So you don't like Glam rock in general. Does that mean no one else should?

Your claim that KISS and Twisted sister suck, should tell everyone just how good your taste is(n't). Rolling Stone magazine seems to disagree with you on Kiss's musical abilities. Placing their album 'Alive' a 159th place on the list of top 500 albums of all time. Ahead of such artists as: Radiohead, Prince, Bob Dylan, Marvin Gaye, Bob Marley, Aerosmith, Parliament/Funkadelic, The Rolling Stones, Elvis Presley, R.E.M, AC/DC, Michael Jackson, Pearl Jam, Pink Floyd, Beastie Boys, U2, Bruce Springsteen, Pixies, Erik B. and Rakim, Queen, Black Sabbath, and The Grateful Dead.

The essence of the issue is: What makes (music) a band "good"?

I think all will agree the answer to such a question is HIGHLY subjective. I personally think Lordi's lyrics rock(pun intended). But in an intentionally campy and over the top fashion. I find the fact they make so many puns in a foreign language very impressive to be honest. Lordi is totally a joke. Tomi(Mr. Lordi) doesn't take himself seriously at all(unlike GWAR). The whole thing is supposed to be tongue-in-cheek. That being said, they are hugely successful at pulling this joke off. Perhaps more pertinant to my point, I would be willing to bet you have only heard/seen that single song/video. Am I right? Passing judgement on any band after such a small bit of exposure seems more than a bit premature.

The fact you don't get it/like it is a shame. But for you to say they suck is out of line.

"Surprised to see many people on my flist making a big deal of this."
Because you don't know the background store. A huge portion of Finnish national identity is constructed around an intense inferiority complex. Aftering being either Sweden's or Russia's bitch for the past 1200 years, several catastrophic famines and civil wars, and the whole war reparations thing with Russia post WWII. Finns are a bit beat down in the national ego department. A lose in any international competition, even something as utterly ridiculous as the Eurovision contest, hurts every Finn that hears about it. Conversely a win in any international contest effects Finns deeply. For over 30 years the Eurovision song contest has meant national embarrassments for Finland. Years of not only not winning but in many cases of getting 0 points(a true disgrace). Have meant most Finns cringe just thinking about Euro vision. So to send a band that almost everyone assumed was a guaranteed 0 to the contest. But then to place first, with a new record score, and best Russia by one of the largest margins in eurovision history. It's just huge here.

Finland isn't Australia or America. It's not some huge country with a massive population. Where all kinds of interesting things happen all of the time. Finland is 1/23 the size of Australia, with only 1/ 4 the population. We don't do big military operations around our region. At the 2004 Athens games Australia got 49 medals(17G,16S,16B). Finland got 2(silvers). The only times Finland usually wins international competitions is when tax rates or economic competitiveness start getting compared. Then we take home the dubious honour of having the highest aggregate tax burden of any country on the planet. Which basically no one cares to even thing about.

So you see, to a Finn, winning this competition is a very big deal.

From:

So you see, to a Finn, winning this competition is a very big deal.

That's not a very convincing argument. Sorta like your parents telling you to eat your vegetables because children are starving in Africa. Eurovision the crude grain meal to a starving infant Finland. It does say something about Finland, it doesn't say anything about Eurovision.

From:

"That's not a very convincing argument."

What is so hard to understand?
Something big happened in a small country. Maybe if I drew you some pictures or something. I could clear up your confusion? First let me lower the linguist complexity a little. If this doesn't work out maybe some interpretive dance or puppet theater will be required.

Eurovision contest big deal in Europe (rightly or wrongly)
Finland never win contest
Finland always lose pitifully
same every year for 30 year
but win this year
with record score
Finns think big deal

Understand now?

"It does say something about Finland, it doesn't say anything about Eurovision."

Indeed. Finns like it when their countrymen win international contests. Even if said contest is less than earth shatteringly important.
Don't forget Finland is the home of a great many odd competitions:

Air Guitar World Championship
Mobile Phone Throwing World Championships
The world championships of Rubber boot throwing
And let's not forget the most important international competition ever held....
The Wife Carrying World Championships.
And the wikipedia article on that one.

From:

See, Finland losing Eurovision pitifully every year for thirty years should be worn as a badge of honour. It is a huge carnival of bad taste, masochism and schadenfreude, all wrapped up in glitter and neon. Losing such a competition is a good thing.

"No, we Finns don't worry about losing Eurovision all the time. He have Nokia, Linux, the world's best PISA test results, and one of the highest standards of living in the world. I guess it all comes down to priorities."

From:

Exactly! Perhaps

evil_genius is a self-hating Finn? Some of the best psychedelic music is coming out of Finland. There is a Monty Python song about Finland. Even Linux, as you mentioned. All far greater honours than winning Eurovision.

From:

An American, who moved to Finland to wed his beloved.

I must say, the quality of the flames between you two has been quite good.

Just don't take it all too seriously, either of you. It's a glam rock band and Eurovision for goodness sake.

From:

It's clear you missed the point.

From:

"See, Finland losing Eurovision pitifully every year for thirty years should be worn as a badge of honour. It is a huge carnival of bad taste, masochism and schadenfreude, all wrapped up in glitter and neon. Losing such a competition is a good thing."

It would be a badge of honor if finland had been sending otherwise "good" artists there. Only to have them lose. But unfortunately rather than being the best of the worst. Finland has just been the worst of the worst.

From:

Finland has just been the worst of the worst.

My point is that should not be something to aspire to.

From:

That is irrelevant.

From:

Au contraire, it is very relevant. There is no pride in being the worst country in anything - or the best of a bad taste competition.

Would you seriously want to be known as the worst author in history? Or the worst programmer?

From:

Yes.. I did actually understand your point, I'm just questioning its efficacy as a rebuttal. "Finland is a small country who is good at nothing and not very popular so Eurovision is good for us"

I understand, I'm just not impressed.

From:

"Finland is a small country who is good at nothing and not very popular so Eurovision is good for us"

I neither said nor meant such an utterly ridiculous thing. Finland is a great country that a great many spectacular things come out of.

Why must every exchange with you be so frustrating?

From:

Why must every exchange with you be so frustrating?

Because you take everything far too seriously. As your sense of humour is relegated to laughing at your own flames, you're an easy target. Loosen up buddy.

From:

Aesthetically, I will acknowledge from the outset, to be a "high art" advocate in the same mould as the Frankfurt School (Adorno, Horkheimer and Marcuse in particular). I do think there are ways and means of evaluating the arts in a manner which does not result in mere subjectivity.

As I have expressed elsewhere, if the arts were dependent on the votes of the masses, then we'd have professors of literature specialising in Hagar The Horrible rather the Poetic and Prose Edda; culture would be whatever the culture industry produced, and The Kalevala would be replaced by a Eurodisney production of a title more consumable for a Anglo-American audience.

Aesthetic analysis can be applied to music; the conceptual construction of time using tones (vertical harmonies, horizontal melodies) and silence for a psychoacoustic effect. In contemporary (that is, 20th century onwards) music is often accompanied by lyrical content in which poetic analysis can be applied.

I have listened and viewed several Lordi songs and, heaven help me, read through more than a dozen of their lyrics. As has been pointed out to me there are moments where lyrically they reach a Spinal Tap moment, but this is the exception rather than the rule. Psychoacoustically, they seem (and this is subjective, as the sense are subjective) to lack the sort of passion, emotion and especially originality that I have found in other bands in their genre (I am thinking specifically of Ne Plus Ultra and the amazing narrative depth in Elend).

As for Finland, apart from your good self, noone has made a mention of the importance of Finland per se winning Eurovision. Most seem to have been attracted to the outfits - which I don't think is a good basis to judge the competence of musical skill or lyrical content. Perhaps, as it has been suggested in this thread, that Eurovision is a competition in bad taste.

From:

"Aesthetically, I will acknowledge from the outset, to be a "high art" advocate"

You could have simply summurized with "I'm a snob" and left it there.

From: