tcpip | A certain incident....

A certain incident....

Readers of my last protected entry will realize that I have been having a bit of trouble with my CCNA instructors (not tutors, I have been duly informed) and access to module assesments.

On Wednesday one of the instructors, Graham Timmins, telephones and informs me - in the most abusive and threatening manner possible - that I had been expelled from the course and if I attempted to attend on Saturday that he would remove me. He also claimed that he "knew my type" and that I had done nothing in the past fifteen years except be a professional student (clearly he doesn't know how to do a websearch).

Now of course you can't prove anything by 'phone. So I requested that he send me an email of all this - at which point he hung up. Soon afterwards I received send email, minus the personal abuse and of course the threat to throw me out substantially modified ("you will be refused entry").

He also said for further discussion I should either 'phone him or see him personally. Neither is an option to me. I don't want to engage in a conversation with a man with that sort of 'phone manner, and the idea of seeing an erratic individual who wants me to go to a building which he has just threatened to throw me out of is unlikely.

I have submitted a formal complaint to RMIT on account of his actions.

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Don't suppose you have heard back from the Dean yet??

Timmins has definitely over reacted in his response to your emails!

At least now you know you can do the exam without them now

Don't suppose you have heard back from the Dean yet??

Not yet - I suspect this will take several days.

Timmins has definitely over reacted in his response to your emails!

And thank you for looking after me after the call. Much appreciated. Nasty piece of work that character.

At least now you know you can do the exam without them now

Yes, and for about $1800 less.

And thank you for looking after me after the call. Much appreciated. Nasty piece of work that character.

That's okay, you'd do the same. Though I must admit you were pretty distracted for the rest of the evening. Understandably though.

At least this way you will be able to get the course done at your own pace as well, and not get pulled back by so called tutors

That's okay, you'd do the same.

Er yes. As would any human who still has the honour of calling themselves that.

and not get pulled back by so called tutors

A significant advantage. As they pointed out however, they're not tutors, they're instructors.

To whit I thought... "Yeah, that's right. Instructors instruct. Tutors teach."

Odd. What reason did he give?

I thought most universities had provision to return test papers buried somewhere in their handbooks or policies. I know many academics hate it, and will swear point blank that no such provision exists.

But they're academics - and don't know any better.

What reason did he give?

Hmmm... Now that is a wonder. I guess the closest thing he came to a reason was that (a) I wasn't interested in the course (not true of course) and (b) he knows my type and I hadn't done anything for fifteen years (not true of course).

I thought most universities had provision to return test papers buried somewhere in their handbooks or policies.

Usually - but this probably doesn't apply in this case as a fee-paying short course.

er, far as I know, our policy extends to viewing of exam papers, but not return. you may view, and question, marking of your exam in the company of the subject coordinator, but they are not returned to you.

That's as I requested. I didn't want to take them home or anything. I just wanted to know what questions I got wrong.

It didn't really seem to be a big deal at first.

I believe that RMIT has reasonable student advocacy - both through the Student Union and the department (depending which dept - but I think Comp Sci is good).

I've contacted the Student Union about it. The person in question is a lecturer at the School of Life and Physical Sciences. I've contacted the Head of School and their Pro Vice-Chancellor.

With the sort of behavior you're describing, it could amount to a disciplinary matter against the staff member in question.

Bear in mind that while lecturers seem all-powerful, they come in everything from the tennured variety (impossible to get rid of), to the sessional (basically temp staff). You could infer from such attempts to "throw his weight around" that he in fact has fairly little real power.

Also, expulsions never happen on the spot, and are always in writing. This person is trying to scare you away, which is infinately easier than securing a formal expulsion.

It's now up to you to make sure your studies don't suffer. When you're in dispute with a lecturer, there should be some mechanism to get an alternate person to mark your work. Good luck.

Whilst I have no doubt that all this things are true, he did claim that he checked with administration beforehand on whether he had the authority to expel me - and as a short course fee paying student apparently I am of the less rights variety of student.

It's now up to you to make sure your studies don't suffer.

Good advice, and I have already made new plans.

Good Luck :-)
& always verify
...never trust an adversary to explain the rules to you!

Sounds like rot to me. Certainly he could not throw you out of a course for something as trivial as arguing with him about your rights to view your marked assignments.

Assuming he is actually employed by the University, as opposed to some subsidiary entity, you would have the same entitlements in this regard as any other student - and all the appeal processes that are available if he did actually attempt to prevent you from attending class.

I don't know what RMIT policy is, but at my place he would not be within his rights in refusing to let you see how you went during a mid-term assessment.

Lordy me!

What in heavens name happened to precipitate your expulsion?!

I will readily admit as the reasons for excluding access to module tests were elusive, I became rather terse in my emails. But at no point did I engage in personal abuse or threats, which is not what I can say about the other side of this debate.

Growing a beard and refusing to shave it off again? ;-)

Seriously keep at them - RMIT Admin are harder to move than boulders.

Yay cheeky wee thing!

the idea of seeing an erratic individual who wants me to go to a building which he has just threatened to throw me out of is unlikely.

Best done in front of a witness, if at all. First rule of conflicts is log everything, second rule is be able to document it.

I thought about that but decided that (a) may be risky, because he was quite crazed and (b) would be an unpleasant experience for other students.

At this point in time, I'm taking the external authority route.

Yeah, I was thinking somebody in uni admin or student union rather than just a fellow student.

That is crazy! Abusive phonecalls kicking you out of the class... How can they do that?

I wouldn't go see him either. Or if i did i would take a witness and ask they stayed in the room while you conversed.

Asking for an email - very clear headed of you. Think i would have been in tears by that point :)

How can they do that?

Apparently he went to effort to check with admin first. As a fee paying short course I have less rights than a normal student.

Asking for an email - very clear headed of you.

I was in the middle of December 4, 2003 riots in East Timor - had a clear head then as well... Mind you after the incident - that's when the shock sets in.

*makes rude and abusive gestures at that fella and hugs you, after abusive gestures are finished*

Thanks kt, much appreciated... You know, his contact details are easy to find if you really want to make rude gestures at him ;-)

I could go throw eggs and toilet paper at his house! xD he's in aust??

You m'dear are very very naughty!

But we already knew that... and in so many ways ;-)

why thankee!! i can only try to be ;)

*huggles*

I have had similar experiences with instructors and Yay! for you. Very sorry that you are having to go through all this though :(

*huggles and squeezes*

Feesch

Thanks my dear feesch... BTW good news: booked the tickets to Brisbane last night!

Yay for that even more!!

Looking forward to catching up with you

and so is the green one!!

Yay

Feesch

Getting it in writing and making a complaint was a good move.

From the reaction you got, I can only speculate that it seems like he probably felt you were threatening his authority and professionalism and took it very personally. Unfortunately, from the sound of it, you had good cause for complaint.

Best of luck in resolving it all :-).

I can only speculate that it seems like he probably felt you were threatening his authority and professionalism and took it very personally.

*nods* You are possibly right. And as far as ironic narratives are concerned, it seems that his professionalism and authority are under threat.

Best of luck in resolving it all.

Thanks. Bit silly of them to pick on a person who was a student advocate on precisely issues like this for years, wasn't it?

Hmmm definately student bodies and advocacy/union stuff is the right course i would try and steer clear of doing anything personally as this means the lecturer will have to go through an "inhouse" system that will leave a nice paper trail. I find it very interesting that they took that action. It will be very interesting to see the response from the head i will doubtless say it will be a more measured response than what you got over the phone.

Yep that's the approach I'm taking. Not only do I get to avoid the person in question, I also get to mediate through a higher authority.

I had a senior faculty guy at uni say sarcastically "Thank the tax-payer" when I expressed relief at being allowed to stay there for so many years doing undergrad studies. This was coming from a fatso who had his degree(s) handed to him in the good old no-HECS days where things really were free for the student and fully funded by the tax-payer. No, I don't have to thank the tax-payer because I've always paid my fair share of taxes (some of which I'd like to think contribute to the education budget, while I wish none went into the machinery of invading other countries, but that's another issue). I've got a HECS-debt the size of a house-deposit (something he'll never have hanging over his head) and he wants me to think the tax-payer? Idiot.

Sounds like you've got a similar power-tripper. I say, call his bluff with Admin. Submit a formal complaint against his behavior, quoting his words...I sincerely hope he loses his position. What he said was unacceptable.

The hypocrisy of some academics makes them unworthy to be able to use that title.

As mentioned the complaint has been submitted. I have requested disciplinary action.

Teaching is fundamentally easy, you just get your ego out of the way.

He clearly fails both as a teacher and for abusive insecurity. I think they call this congruent behaviour.

All the necessary good advice has been given. I will just add my moral support.

Thanks you that. You are quite right of course - teaching and egocentric behaviour are indeed quite antithetical, because the prime orientation of teaching is to impart knowledge and understanding to an alter.

Being an instructor however evidently is a very different kettle of fish.

*groan*

Which idiot decided that was the appropriate title?

I have already mentioned his name in this thread as the protagonist...

Thought you'd like that one ;-)

Wow. That speaks volumes. Yes indeed.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

A certain incident....

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OMG!

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Yay for you! and Grrrrr @ them

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Whoo hoo!

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Ego and teaching

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