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Seminary Studies etc and ALP NatCon
The past few days I've spent a fair amount of time completing essays for my studies at The New Seminary. A complete update of my work to date, which includes Hinduism, Buddhism and Taoism, plus reviews of the four common dialogues of the last days of Socrates, plus reviews of the first three chapters of Felder's procedural reconstruction of the Ten Commandments, are all available on my website. Yes, that is quite a word count. Edit Neglected to mention that I've been upgraded to the accelerated program, and will complete within a year.
On related matters, caught up with a fellow seminary student who occasionally lives in Melbourne. A former liberal Baptist she is now part of a Uniting Church eco-feminist congregation that meets at CERES. It made good sense to have dinner that night at the home of the organiser of a local witches coven
I have arrived in Sydney to attend the ALP's National Conference and Fringe Conference. Staying in a rather neat and surprisingly charming backpackers dorm in Bondi. Chatted to a reporter on the 'plane over, who reckons the numbers are about 170 to the left and about 220 to the right, with a handful of independents, and with wavering factions in the larger groupings (e.g., the Ferguson Left, the NUW). Briefly attended the National Left meeting. Major issues that will come up will be marriage equality, onshoring processing of asylum seekers, uranium sales to India, and Party reform. Will be making ample use of Twitter during the conference (lev_lafayette).
On related matters, caught up with a fellow seminary student who occasionally lives in Melbourne. A former liberal Baptist she is now part of a Uniting Church eco-feminist congregation that meets at CERES. It made good sense to have dinner that night at the home of the organiser of a local witches coven
I have arrived in Sydney to attend the ALP's National Conference and Fringe Conference. Staying in a rather neat and surprisingly charming backpackers dorm in Bondi. Chatted to a reporter on the 'plane over, who reckons the numbers are about 170 to the left and about 220 to the right, with a handful of independents, and with wavering factions in the larger groupings (e.g., the Ferguson Left, the NUW). Briefly attended the National Left meeting. Major issues that will come up will be marriage equality, onshoring processing of asylum seekers, uranium sales to India, and Party reform. Will be making ample use of Twitter during the conference (lev_lafayette).
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As much as the varna finds its origins in the Manusmriti, which are supposed to be apaurusheyatva (or am I wrong there?)
Firstly, the Varna system doesn't find it's origins in the Manusmiriti. It was present in some form or the other much before that - and the mention of the names of the varnas is present in the earliest of Vedic hymns - even though it may not have referred to clearly demarcated social groups at that time. Secondly, Manusmiriti is less a prescription of how society should be ordered and more a compilation of various kinds of rules and regulations in prevalence in various segments of the society at the time it was compiled by the author - or quite likely several authors. And as with all Smritis (remembered or compiled texts), these rules were meant to be time-specific and required to be altered according to social requirements. This is unlike Srutis (revealed texts - the Vedas along with the Upanishads) who are considered to contain eternal truths. So the Smiritis are not timeless truths or tenets of the religion, just codes of conduct which are specific to the era. About Apaurusheyatva - yes the revealed texts are said to be unauthored - but that's not the pertinent distinction between Smritis and Srutis in relation to the point we are discussing.
I appreciate and thoroughly approve of the interpretative and liberal approach that you have taken on this matter of course
I'm sorry but I don't know what you are talking about. I have just been describing some facts that are fairly known amongst students of the subject.
just in the same way I appreciate how liberal Christians find much of their Bible to be abhorrent in inappropriate
You may appreciate it for the same set of personal values held by you, but this is not the same thing.
there's is not the only interpretation
Reinterpretation of texts in the way most pertinent and usefully applicable is a time-old and noted historical tradition of Hinduism. However,I don't know what interpretations we are talking about here.
there is plenty who will claim that the holy books are to be interpreted literally and eternally
Where have you heard the claim that all Hindu holy books - including the smritis - are eternal? And where have you heard the claim that what is written in Hindu holy books is to be interpreted literally? As far as I know, Hindu holy books repeatedly say, and Hindu seers have repeatedly declared, that the eternal truth is indescribable in words, and even the Vedas, the supreme scriptures, are only a reflection and abstraction of that eternal truth. Differing interpretations are not only valid but unavoidable, given that the ordinary human intellect can only increase its grasp of the absolute by degrees, starting from various differing perspectives.
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Which are, to my understanding, apaurusheyatva. But yes, on further research you are right to point out the status of the Manusmiriti.
I have just been describing some facts that are fairly known amongst students of the subject.
Nevertheless, we surely do admit the existence of very conservative Hindus who believe an iron-clad caste society is justified by the scriptures.
(Although, as an aside, Hinduism largely does not seem to suffer the same sort sort of religious fundamentalism which plagues the Abrahamic faiths).
Where have you heard the claim that all Hindu holy books - including the smritis - are eternal?
I haven't and I'm not claiming that. There are some books which are "unauthored" and those which are subject to temporal variation.
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Which, as I said, is only tangential to our discussion, so don't know why you noted it - but fine! Also, apaurusheyatva is a noun ("unauthoredness"),not an adjective.
But yes, on further research you are right to point out the status of the Manusmiriti.
So there goes your your statement beginning "As much as the varna finds...," and I hope you agree with me now that how your allusion to the caste system wasn't a valid counterpoint on that occasion.
we surely do admit the existence of very conservative Hindus who believe an iron-clad caste society is justified by the scriptures
I had only shown that doing away with the caste system would not be inconsistent with belief in the existence of Rta. Justifications can of course be offered for the caste systems based on the scriptures; and those can be contested, again based on the scriptures. But fine, you want to call me liberal, call me liberal - no issues.
Although, as an aside, Hinduism largely does not seem to suffer the same sort sort of religious fundamentalism which plagues the Abrahamic faiths
I admit to not knowing about Abrahamic religions in much detail, but the tolerance that people note is an outcome of belief in existence of multiple paths in pursuit of supreme knowledge and devotion - a belief that is as core to Hinduism as the concepts of Brahman, Rta etc. are, and which is etched in the very thought process that characterizes the Hindu social milieu.
I haven't and I'm not claiming that.
Umm.. You said "there is plenty who will claim that the holy books are to be interpreted literally and eternally." If there are no such claims by Hindus that are worth being noted then way say there is plenty...?
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Sorry, I should have specified some of the books, in particular the unauthored sort.
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